Question:Is an 8D Report and a NCR (Nonconformance Report) the same?

Jim Wynne:Generally, no. An NCR (Nonconformance Report) is usually a document that describes a nonconforming product condition, and an 8D report is a the result of a specific type of corrective action process. An NCR might result in an 8D report.

David DeLong:I agree with Jim on this one. A nonconformance states the deficiency and afterwards there would be a disposition rendered. An 8 D is the short and long term corrective action to eliminate the “defect” in future runs. There usually is a section for preventive action on similar processes.

qualprod:Normally, first is the disposition, you have to fix the problem, sometimes is sufficient and turn the page, (if it is a Minor problem) if not, next Is the 8d or fishbone or whatever.
Sometimes both actions run in parallel.

John Predmore:There are 8 activities in an 8-D. The D refers to 8 Disciplines, or aspects of a problem-solving effort. There are different forms and formats used by different companies, so you might find slight differences when you search the Internet. In general, the 8 activities could be assigned to different persons, could be started at different times or could be completed out of order. But there is an logical sequence order which makes sense, so when making a list of activities, undertake them in logical order.

In common practice, the “immediate action” is to prevent the immediate problem from spreading, escaping (getting out of your factory into the hands of more customers) or getting worse. I call that Containment. Typically, the immediate action does not “solve” the root problem from recurring. Often, there is more investigation and more definitive corrective action to prevent or reduce the problem happening again.

I agree “Disposition” of suspect parts must be done and could be part of the Containment activity (3rd D). But the act of Disposition contributes nothing to reduce the root problem, does little to protect the customer in the long-term. Disposition might actually be used to hide the problem from management, which is not helpful to problem-solving IMHO. Disposition is a much lower priority than Containment and if problem-solver resources are limited, Disposition is done later.

Bev D:Let’s take it step by step.

First there is detection. I find a couple of nonconforming parts.
I “NCR” them (people love to verb nouns) which is really just a means of identifying and notifying people that these parts are bad. the parts are ‘segregated’ physically or electronically or by some means from the ‘good’ parts.

Then comes correction. Someone comes and dispositions the bad parts. this is also referred to as ‘correction’. In other words I either rework or repair* the parts to make them ‘good’ again. or I determine that they are acceptable as is**. Or I scrap them/return them to the supplier to remove them from the system.

Next comes containment. Containment is as John P said – screen future parts to ensure any ‘bad’ parts don’t escape and screen to ensure that there are no parts that did escape downstream to finished goods or the customer and are there any necessary actions for parts that did escape tot eh Customer to improve their experience (recall & replace, free goods, special instructions, proactive notification, etc.)

Next comes 8D/corrective action to prevent recurrence. Now depending on the severity of the detected problem the 8D may start at containment. sometimes 8D starts after containment when it is found to be severe and extensive. And of course some occurrences of a defect are too few in number and/or severity to not require an 8D/corrective action to prevent recurrence…

*repair in some industries has a special meaning. this may generate another review and approval loop.
**Use as is can also generate special review and approval loops

Jim Wynne:(Reply to Bev D said)I think containment has to come before correction–it’s usually the first thing done upon notification or discovery. You can’t do correction until you’ve located all of the suspect material.

Bev D:There are some times when. The defect may be routine (we catch it in QC testing on a regular basis) and we don’t move past correction until an increase in the occurence rate prompts us to look for escapes. So there may be a few times when containment comes after correction.


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